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Post by Rupp440 on Jan 16, 2015 7:37:58 GMT -6
Just my opinion! a fake is a fake if you try to sell it as an original and not tell someone what it started out as your not good for this hobby. I have seen some 73 Magnums go for a lot of money and have a nitro bottom end in it boy do those people get upset when you tell them there sled is not original and they paid way to much for it honestly is the best policy. My 2 Cents Don't like it to bad!
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Post by 74nitro2 on Jan 16, 2015 7:58:42 GMT -6
I must have missed the part where Tom claimed it was original. You can check with him but 600 is not for sale last I checked. mcruppin,, I hope your not entering your 600 in original class. Sounds like you changed lots of parts.
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Post by Rupp440 on Jan 16, 2015 8:17:05 GMT -6
I guess you need to learn how to read it does say IF you try to sell and has nothing to do with Tom it's the whole population!
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Post by 74nitro2 on Jan 16, 2015 8:30:12 GMT -6
This is an original. Would you like to criticize it? Attachment Deleted Adjuster bolts are on polising bench.
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Post by 74nitro2 on Jan 16, 2015 8:31:43 GMT -6
Don't drool on your keyboard..
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Post by Rupp440 on Jan 16, 2015 8:36:42 GMT -6
You got that from Greg lot of nos parts on that!!
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Post by mcruppin on Jan 16, 2015 8:50:13 GMT -6
Hey Mike, give me a call (917)608-5496. You need to be schooled on a few things, instead of shooting off from the hip!
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Post by krazy on Jan 16, 2015 11:18:59 GMT -6
I probably should stay out of this but I have to make a comment. I don't think it's a good idea for us to be squabbleing about what is real or isn't real with our favorite brand(Rupp).Unlike most other brands we can not PROVE our sleds are real unless you have the shipping documents when it left the factory or some other form of written proof. We don't have a list of serial #'s or ID tags to prove their real. About all we really have is someones word that it's real and i'm sorry to say this about our hobby but i think just about anyone will lie when it suits their needs. I'm afraid if we keep debateing real/not real where the rest of the brands can see it the next time you want to sell that really nice 600/800 Magnum or whatever Rupp the buyer is going to say PROVE IT! If you can't now what? It's worthless, it's a clone? How do you really know someone didn't collect these things 40 years ago because he just really liked them when you couldn't hardly give them away and slap some sleds together? 30-40 years later who the heck would know? I'm not trying to start anything or point fingers or bash anyone. I'm just saying I don't think this is healthy for us. It's easy to sit here and make accusations but if you can't prove yours is real either well then hell I guess it's just a clone too! I know a lot of you will take exception to my last statement but that's the point, it's harder to prove it's real than it is to clone it. Just think about some of this is all i'm asking before you start pointing fingers. Joe
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Post by ruppman on Jan 16, 2015 11:43:24 GMT -6
Well said Joe Rick you have pm.
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Post by mcruppin on Jan 16, 2015 12:51:10 GMT -6
Joe, you bring up some good points, although I do disagree on some things. I believe this is a problem with all brands, not just Rupp's. As you know a 600 main frame(tunnel) is exclusive to the 600 ONLY! Add to that carbs,linkages, choke mechanism, motor plate, exhaust, lower panels, wiring, etc etc. etc I feel you would be able to tell regardless of paperwork. Very easy to spot the discrepancies! When someone stands in front of you and tells you it is real, when someone enters it in a national show as real(as opposed to clone) it is deceiving. What's wrong with having a very nice re-creation? Why not just say that? I suppose I am the bad guy for speaking my mind, but that's what the problem is, it has now become accepted to change history. I thought we were trying to preserve history, and expand positively on our hobby. I am all about the Rupp sleds, build what you want, enjoy, and have fun. Just don't portray it as something it not. See ya's at Waconia.
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Post by krazy on Jan 16, 2015 14:02:40 GMT -6
John, I don't want to dispute this but most other brands the serial # will identify what it started out as. Some had tags and any tag can be copied, yes also motor tags. My point was that that doesn't go for the Rupps. You mentioned the 600, yeah it has some holes in odd places. I have a drill and with enough money I could copy it, guaranteed! There are a few distinct chassis for Rupp but very few.I've set the 71W/T,N/T and the same Magnum tunnels side by side and there isn't much difference, maybe some seat snaps cause of the different seats. The 71 440WT and 634WT have the holes in the bulkhead to adjust the front swing arm on the slide suspension. They just didn't drill them through the tunnel. Why would they do that if they wern't generic? I get what your saying about misrepresentation. I just don't think it's a good idea to blair it out to the world involving the Rupps. The vintage world may start questioning all Rupps then where will we be? Let's face it most of us would be screwed. Joe
OK, I'm off my podium........Just saying..
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Post by racingelvis on Jan 16, 2015 14:08:31 GMT -6
back to the original topic about goofing off, looks like you had a fun day mike. sometimes those post and pics really get to me, every weekend i am gone racing and now my wife and daughter want to try so race weekends got even busier. but some how i find the time also to goof off with my l/c nitro once in awhile. life is to short, have fun and goof off when you can......b.s.171
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Post by daren007 on Jan 16, 2015 17:14:39 GMT -6
As far as I can tell Rupp punched the holes in their tunnels. (not drilled). Pretty hard to copy. dc
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goofin off
Jan 16, 2015 17:18:08 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by magnesium on Jan 16, 2015 17:18:08 GMT -6
You can't fake a 600 Tohatsu. Do your best on the rest of the sled.I have 2 600 tunnels and an 800 tunnel.I know some of their history,but they are based on the generic WT. I don't like the bogie spring tabs so I cut them off and sanded all traces of them away.I never saw a polished Rupp tunnel until I connected to the internet.I know that I'm alone in this,but I don't like them. New aluminum is what I like,it doesn't overpower the rest of the sled. Rupp made a beautiful snowmobile,red and black with white graphics,chrome and naugahyde.The aluminum was the best material for the frame,it wasn't flashy,just right.I do what I want with my Rupp's,not worried about recovering the money I've spent. Climbing over top of each other on technical minutae reflects badly on the slaggers.Enjoy your Rupp,even that S29.They were some of the finest of their time and I won't let this bickering spoil the memories.
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Post by krazy on Jan 16, 2015 18:23:55 GMT -6
Here's a suggestion. Take an old tunnel and drill a let's say 5/16" hole in it. Now use a tapered stone a little bigger than the hole, put it in a drill and spin it in the hole. You will end up with a perfectly round smooth hole with no burrs of any kind that will look like it's been there for 40 years. It would take a really good eye to notice a difference if you weren't looking for it.
Mark, I'm just curious. What to you would make a 600 Tohatsu a fake. I know the cases can be made, the heads too(boy I wish someone would make some of these). The cylinders and cranks can be found. Yeah right your thinking now, well for the last 2 months there has been 6 NOS cylinders and 3 cranks sitting on the bench in my garage and no they are not mine but they are for sale, NOT CHEAP but they can be had.
Another thing that has always puzzled me about the Rupps. Lets say you have a 71 magnum you want to restore. You find out it's cheaper to buy new glass then fix the old damaged stuff. Windshield is missing so you get a repop. Seats gone so repop foam and cover. repop sno flap. Mice got to the pipes so repop again. You do all this and people will accept it's been restored. But then you mention that a ski had gone through the side of the tunnel while racing so you stripped down a 440WT and used that tunnel. Now they tell you it's been cloned. Why is that? That's the most RUPP part you put on it. Knowing that the early Rupp tunnels are basically generic doesn't that seem rather odd, or is it just me? Joe
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goofin off
Jan 16, 2015 18:54:46 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by magnesium on Jan 16, 2015 18:54:46 GMT -6
These are the conversations I like.If someone decides to cast some heads and cases and machine some cranks and order some Wiseco's etc etc etc there'd be a line up for the motors.The 600 fascinates me.Narrowed the motor by twisting the cylinders,the ported pistons cooled the crown and lubed the wrist pin bearings. Did Mick Rupp deliberately try to beat 650's with a 600? Building the 650 looks like his second choice.I met Bob Urry who had all 3 free-air Rupp's in 71.(scored 5 meth Keihins and 6 NOS cyl's,440SR top end etc) He said the 600 was faster out-of-the-box than the Honker. Too bad about the licorice crank mated to the RatTrap clutch.I really really want Sperry's 718cc triple,it's like a 600 mutant built by the son of a Rupp racing legend.
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goofin off
Jan 16, 2015 19:02:42 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by magnesium on Jan 16, 2015 19:02:42 GMT -6
I forgot to answer your question Joe. What do you want when you're done? If you go to sell it,tell the whole story and if a potential buyer tries to lower the price cuz it's a fake....then ask him why he still wants to own it. BTW,that 800 you just finished would make me reach for my shades!
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Post by krazy on Jan 16, 2015 19:05:12 GMT -6
Well hell Mark, it's just money. Go buy the dang thing. Ya only get one go around at life ya know Gotta admit, I do like em shine 8-)y.
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goofin off
Jan 16, 2015 19:17:40 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by magnesium on Jan 16, 2015 19:17:40 GMT -6
Well hell Mark, it's just money. Go buy the dang thing. Ya only get one go around at life ya know Gotta admit, I do like em shine 8-)y. As everyone knows,I bought his 440. I'm leery of getting boned twice.Pretty sure that it's insanely quick but he raced it once and parked it.Why? He's asking $13K,that's about 15K Loonies.Is it a Rupp? To me,yes.
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goofin off
Jan 16, 2015 19:42:16 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by magnesium on Jan 16, 2015 19:42:16 GMT -6
Joe, you bring up some good points, although I do disagree on some things. I believe this is a problem with all brands, not just Rupp's. As you know a 600 main frame(tunnel) is exclusive to the 600 ONLY! Add to that carbs,linkages, choke mechanism, motor plate, exhaust, lower panels, wiring, etc etc. etc I feel you would be able to tell regardless of paperwork. Very easy to spot the discrepancies! When someone stands in front of you and tells you it is real, when someone enters it in a national show as real(as opposed to clone) it is deceiving. What's wrong with having a very nice re-creation? Why not just say that? I suppose I am the bad guy for speaking my mind, but that's what the problem is, it has now become accepted to change history. I thought we were trying to preserve history, and expand positively on our hobby. I am all about the Rupp sleds, build what you want, enjoy, and have fun. Just don't portray it as something it not. See ya's at Waconia. More good points made here.I say that the 71 Magnum's had some production compromises in order to keep costs down.The gussets in the 70 Magnum disappeared,but reappeared in 73.Using the WT frames without sorting out serial numbers didn't matter THEN,somehow it does now.Looks like 2 different slide suspensions plus bogies were available,no build sheets came with the sleds.A 72 suspension in a 71? Call it a retrofit upgrade if you want.Your pipes,are they rolled like the originals?Maybe,maybe not,but I wouldn't be the one who uses that to make a point. Cory Muzyka agreed with me that the original 600 pipes didn't have kinked stingers.Find the pictures of his sled,those are the original pipes.On and on it goes....
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