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Post by red19lite on Apr 6, 2015 19:58:14 GMT -6
the xenoah 440 l/c that was put in that sled did that come out of rupp or was it something special bob neimacheck got out of chaparral r&d racing ? just trying to find out if chap had that boost port getting ready for 1975 ? I am just a xenoah nut, thanks for coming on the board and sharing info, kevin Attachment Deleted
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Post by red19lite on Apr 6, 2015 19:59:25 GMT -6
posted twice sorry
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Post by mcruppin on Apr 7, 2015 7:55:17 GMT -6
Lee, I found your read interesting, however I still do not know who Chuck is. What was his relationship with Rupp? What allowed him to make decisions as to what sleds got crushed and which ones got saved? etc. etc.
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Post by bankRUPPt on Apr 7, 2015 10:11:49 GMT -6
When we talk about rupp sno pro stuff and going to events where Rupp had a factory sno pro effort it means 1974 right?
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Post by mcruppin on Apr 7, 2015 14:49:07 GMT -6
"He would go with the Rupp factory Sno Pro team to the various tracks and be there for the sleds being raced, broken, etc." Lee, I presume that was a very small, limited group of guys, would'nt they at least remember his name?
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Post by magnumed on Apr 7, 2015 18:57:18 GMT -6
Lee, thanks for sharing this with us. I'm sure you can understand our drive for correct and accurate information to continue the Rupp tradition and help others understand what Rupp did some 40 years ago. It sounds like Chuck shared information and maybe embellished his stories a touch. I'm not trying to discredit anything you say I'm just a bit confused on chucks comments to you and the facts that have been given to us by the guys that were there. I don't mean that you, Chuck, Rudy and others weren't envolved in the Rupp racing but when Tedd Pierce and Gene Bloom where the only two involved in the sno pro race circuit on Rupp sno pros in 1974 and they don't know Chuck Brightley this raises a big red flag, it also raises concerns on what he really did for Rupp. If you ask anyone involved in Rupp who was the backbone for their racing program and hands down 100% will say Gene Bloom. He was the Rupp race program period. He does not know Chuck Brightley. When the story broke bill had the 650 3d it was purchased by Chuck Brightley from Gene Bloom. Now it was Chuck that removed it from Rupp. The bottom line is stories are told changed a touch embellished for what ever reason and the end result we as a group suffer from truthful or accurate information on this important history.
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Post by racingelvis on Apr 7, 2015 20:28:59 GMT -6
Nice write up Ed,.....The other day when I called , we did not get a chance to chat, I wanted to say, I did look back at some notes I took when chatting with Chuck, Chuck did indeed tell me he bought the sled from gene, at the rupp factory, so does that mean Gene was instrumental in the sales for chuck buying, not sure, it is confusing, or was Gene not involved at all in the sales of the sleds and parts chuck did buy from rupp. I do know Gene left for out east the summer of '74 so if Gene was involved it had to be before he left I would think. now, after getting to know lee, he has been able to shed so much lite on my sled, he was there, and he seems to remember most of it. as time goes on more and more info comes out which is great. look what has happened in the last week or so, another magnesium 3d bulkhead was found, and its brand new, the aloutte twin track was found, sounds like not one, but two of them, and look what happens here, lee comes on here and confirms what was told to me years ago. what ever my sled is there is some deep rupp racing history behind it that's for sure.
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Post by magnumed on Apr 8, 2015 5:54:28 GMT -6
A lot of Rupps have deep history with racing. They don't have to be factory, most of them are independent racers that did very well in racing. When you throw in the factory side of the racing history it becomes a little more important due to the fact of the rarity and worth of the sled. When having open discussions like this can be helpful to piece some or all of the history of a sled or a person. I'm glad you spoke with Chuck Brightley and he gave you information, I'm glad lee has come on board and told his story. As time passes what we say now seems to stick in our minds and becomes part of it. So when we listen to all these discussions why do we leave out the most important part of this discussion? Bill what has Tedd Pierce told you about this sled? I've never seen any of this discussion posted by you. If you want it all then tell it all. We can't be self serving on this topic it's too important to the Rupp people, it's much too important to the correct history. As time passes hopefully more information will enlighten us on this subject. A lot of us have sleds that have been changed over time, doesn't make them any less important but makes them cool or maybe even a little more desirable. A good example is the 71 440 SR Magnum. Factory built maybe one? The 440 SR 71's like mine are put together sleds but are a part of the history. Wether you have a complete original or a hand built replica it has some importance to our Rupp history.I would give a nice sum for your liquid 589. It has history, it has some 3D background and it's cool. Ed
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Post by racingelvis on Apr 8, 2015 14:39:21 GMT -6
Ed, i have posted what Tedd said at Waconia. since that time when my sled comes up in discussion i am not afraid to say it either what Tedd has said about my sled, Tedd said i can identify 3rd dimension parts, but i cant identify that is the chassis i built. i am ok with that, but i do have a boat load of 3d parts on this sled such as steering, magnesium parts through out the entire sled, titanium cleated track, titanium hardware that are all clues. there just is a lot of facts that this is on of them, but then there is the fact what Tedd said, i understand that. however, he did not say that for sure "i did not build this sled either", so it leaves the door open for discussion. at this point i have searched and found a lot of history, facts and people involved with this sled past the days when it was at rupp. i have thought many many things about this sled and my conversations with people who knew chuck and confirmed that this was the original 3d 650. if a all original 3d 650 showed up today in a barn find, knowing what we know now, there was only one built then what would my sled be?? i have thought maybe my sled is a parted out 3d, maybe when chuck was down at rupp picking up sleds, parts or what ever, maybe he raided the race department, as of last week a brand new spare bulkhead was found, and there was never ever any talk about spare parts but knowing a race team maybe would need some so there had to be a spare part of this or that. chatting with lee over a year now has been very very helpful with my sled, he was there at the time, his story backs up chucks story. back in the day lee has seen the 650 motor, lee has seen the aluminum pipes, lee has posted what he knows about my sled and chucks history. its a very unique sled. the reason i put the #589 on the sled is becouse gene was racing out east with his 75 f/a, #589. chuck told me he was going to have gene race it for him that year but they never met up at a race track.
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Post by racingelvis on Apr 8, 2015 15:09:32 GMT -6
this is another thought i have thought many times, long before i got this sled, the 3d glass was found, ed you recognized it as the 650 glass and it is as we can tell, i do believe that glass is the glass off my sled. my sled is claimed to be the 650, the glass is the 650 glass, the glass has no offset, my front end does not have the off set, just another clue.
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Post by magnumed on Apr 8, 2015 17:02:32 GMT -6
Bill, I do not recognized the glass as 650 glass, it looks to be twin glass from the cut out on the hood. After meeting with Tedd and discussing these sleds in length there were 4 built all the same glass, offset front end. Never two sets of glass. Why would they. The glass you found differs from what we did to make it fit the offset front end. The whole bottom section was missing I had no choice. You built the glass on a widened out 73. That is what you most likely have for a bulkhead. Boat load of parts is what? The parts that were 3D were pointed out to you, suspension and steering. The steering was the magnesium bracket on the bulkhead. Tedd also did not recognize the jack shaft and your right this does not tell you it's not but the builder did not recognize it. You seem to pick up on others comments but the important ones you dismiss. Hear say does not hold water with me or others, facts do, show them, post pictures of the restoration in progress, ps if Chuck Brightley knew what he had and how important it was why would he sell the pipes and engine off and not keep this sled intact, he supposedly thought it was important enough to swap it out and save it from the crusher.
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Post by racingelvis on Apr 8, 2015 17:47:04 GMT -6
ed, i know this will go on and on, i am not dismissing any one's comments, i hear and take them in. the fact is we all know you have a real 3d, yes you had to make some parts, or find some parts but the heart of the sled is there. i think you did a awesome job on bringing that back to life, and your new 650 i love it, you did an outstanding job. as far as my sled, tedd identified at the time at waconia, the steering bar which is chrome molly, titanium track, titanium hardware, the ski's, and the items you said, so that leaves basically the chassis in question. why chuck sold the pipes and motor who knows, this stuff wasn't worth squat at one time, we all know that. i do know some things dont add up here and some things do, i have exhausted every out let i could to find info on this sled, the last thing i think i have is some pictures if lee can find his or chucks son can find his fathers pics. those pics would help.
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Post by magnumed on Apr 9, 2015 5:46:01 GMT -6
Your right it can go on and on. Find the facts. We are a small group of people that do this on limited funds and limited resources, the resources are information and supply. You can't go to the corner store and buy a 73 magnum, it's hard to find a 44 sprint anymore. You can't find much information on production. Here is a good example of (false) information, I had a collector tell me information Mickey Rupp told him on a certain magnum sled. When I spoke to Mickey it was an entire different story. I got it first hand from the man in charge and guess what it was self serving to the individual that was telling me this. Now he tells 20 people, I believe his story and I tell the same story. Guess what now we have false information spreading like wild fire. Add 40 years and guess what? It has to true. If I bought a 71 magnum and brought it home and found it to be a 73 nitro I'd be pissed, don't laugh it has happened. If this is what everyone wants so be it I don't and won't except it? I could care less if they found all 4 3D sleds, yes (4) some where it was mentioned earlier it was 3, I had another guy tell me 5. Too many stories. Pictures and verification by the builder would do it. Im sure a lot of us would love to see your pictures of the restoration on this sled. It's a very nice sled. Would you consider posting theses?
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Post by racingelvis on Apr 9, 2015 7:38:44 GMT -6
i have no problem posting pics., and thats what they are, pics, i will have to pull some out of my album, take a picture of the picture then post. i will do it some time soon.
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Post by magnesium on Apr 10, 2015 13:50:26 GMT -6
Ed....The 650 3D never competed in a race,correct? Rupp pulled out of the 74 SnoPro season early,I believe. From what I saw at Peterborough it would be hard to believe that Gene Bloom suffered a lot of wrecks. What I'm saying is there's a good chance more than one chassis survived. Rupp needed money,why waste cash crushing stuff? I'd say that a magnesium tunnel is the missing proof. Where are they?
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Post by racingelvis on Apr 10, 2015 15:08:29 GMT -6
i was chatting with jay sperry earlier this week, he remembers when the the 3d's came to minn. to practice with his dad at ddi. he remembers the aluminum pipes, they where kohlers and they ran like crap. if he had to guess he said there was 4 of them they brought to race and practice with.he also remembers the decals where differnt than when they showed up to race. mark, not trying to intercept your question to ed, i know the 650 competed at ironwood or was at least there. the guy who gave me the pictures of the 650 said it was on the track for a heat race and pulled off it was running so poorly. i dont think it competed any more that year.
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Post by magnesium on Apr 10, 2015 15:35:23 GMT -6
What I've read or heard is that any sleds that ran Kohler RS motors in SnoPro 74 were down on horsepower. The Yamaha SRX 440 was really hi-tech and Villeneuve's Allouette's were the future. I watched Villeneuve pass the others in the corners either inside or around them outside. The Allouette was heavy and it was a belt-tosser.Somewhere I have a picture of it,waiting for a tow on the back straight at the Kawartha Cup. Back to my point, where are the original magnesium tunnels? Why would anyone waste them?
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Post by bankRUPPt on Apr 10, 2015 16:59:47 GMT -6
I'll answer with a question. Why would anyone keep one?
Probably too flimsy to actually race unless you had new ones on hand to replace it. It was the last of the tunnel mount design, well outdated by 75. They said they cracked when new, that would scare me from using it second hand. Odds are against them surviving. You never know, maybe they all did.
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Post by magnesium on Apr 10, 2015 18:25:20 GMT -6
You're right. They failed out of the box. Rupp failed SnoPro. Why would anyone involved at the time care?
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Post by magnumed on Apr 11, 2015 6:52:56 GMT -6
Mark from Tedds comments the 650 failed and ironwood was it. The sled became a parts donor and I'm sure they needed them. Tedd inspected the cracks on mine and I wish I could or would have recorded his comments. The magnesium tunnel is paper thin. He remembered the immediate problems they had with cracking. If stored in the weather and not preserved like mine was it would definitely dissolve away. I have to coat the magnesium with wd 40 a couple times a year or it starts deteriorating. That's in a heated garage. What happened to all of them who knows. As far as caring about theses sleds I don't think so either, well not then but now it is a big deal.
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